Ginga Peeves

General discussion of topics that encompass more than one of Yoshihiro Takahashi's series, as well as topics relating to Takahashi himself.
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Ginga Peeves

Post by Wolpard » Mon May 13, 2019 9:39 pm

Inspired by Dragon's Unpopular Opinions (Ginga version) thread!

What are some of your peeves relating to Ginga? It can be about the manga, anime, merch, and even the fandom (so long as its not attacking anyone of course!). It can be something that bothers just about anyone, or something that you think only bothers you. It's fair game so long as we stay civil about it.

--

I'll start:

When people dictate people's Ginga OCs as needing to look "realistic".

This is mainly a thing I saw on Deviant Art back in the day so I don't know if its as much as a problem now. People would complain a lot about people putting unnatural colors or hairstyles on their Ginga OCs, when in actuality we have dogs with human-like hair (Pink Dragon, Masamune, the Koga dogs), and the main characters are colored as blue (I know they're meant to be silver but like... that's not how theyre depicted). I dont think it is confirmed canonically since he isnt drawn in color ever, but Pink Dragon is also of course depicted with pink hair. Also most of the dogs have very exaggerated markings (brindle often drawn as very defined stripes), which are of course apart of the style, but that just gives fans more wiggle room depict markings however they want. (Want a dog with a white patch on its chest? no one should be able to stop you from depicting that marking as a literal star shape!)

We also have dogs that can spin around in midair at unnatural speeds and decapitate bears, dogs who can fly from tree to tree, dogs that wield swords like masters, a giant monster dog (mainly giant in the anime, I suppose), and a dog that can kill birds WITH HIS MIND. I don't think realism is a big issue in Ginga...

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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Gingastar » Mon May 13, 2019 10:17 pm

Wolpard wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 9:39 pm
When people dictate people's Ginga OCs as needing to look "realistic".

This is mainly a thing I saw on Deviant Art back in the day so I don't know if its as much as a problem now. People would complain a lot about people putting unnatural colors or hairstyles on their Ginga OCs, when in actuality we have dogs with human-like hair (Pink Dragon, Masamune, the Koga dogs), and the main characters are colored as blue (I know they're meant to be silver but like... that's not how theyre depicted). I dont think it is confirmed canonically since he isnt drawn in color ever, but Pink Dragon is also of course depicted with pink hair. Also most of the dogs have very exaggerated markings (brindle often drawn as very defined stripes), which are of course apart of the style, but that just gives fans more wiggle room depict markings however they want. (Want a dog with a white patch on its chest? no one should be able to stop you from depicting that marking as a literal star shape!)

We also have dogs that can spin around in midair at unnatural speeds and decapitate bears, dogs who can fly from tree to tree, dogs that wield swords like masters, a giant monster dog (mainly giant in the anime, I suppose), and a dog that can kill birds WITH HIS MIND. I don't think realism is a big issue in Ginga...
I'm going to have to agree with this completely. I just personally can't understand why people think they have any say over what someone else's OC should look like in terms of realism. Especially as you said in a series that's full of unrealistic designs and attacks. People should just be able to have fun with their OCs and not have to worry about the design being 100% true to real life. Having OCs is supposed to be fun! Go wild with their design! :EXCITE:
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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Pumpkin Wolf » Mon May 13, 2019 10:58 pm

Honestly my biggest issue is the way Yoshi draws legs. They bend like horse legs in some scenes and... dog legs.. don't.. do that? I know that in the anime it's added for running effect and it makes for some pretty great bombs, but like... what? I'm big into drawing dogs, and anatomy is one of the things I study most. It just kind of kills me a little inside every time I see his dogs' legs bend like that... and they'll also go straight out sometimes too (ie when Gin got pinned down by Benizakura when they first met). I understand that art is hard, but honestly... anatomy is important! XD :derpgin:
And you also can't forget :KRUMP:
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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Dragon » Mon May 13, 2019 11:54 pm

LOL this is great!

I don't really like that most Ginga merch that isn't Plushies or its mangas... is just the scenes put on some plastic. I wish Yoshi could have made some special poses and pics for merch specifically. I know one of my favorite official Ginga merch I've seen by far is a special box that has a lot of characters on it. It was sadly in GDWO style, but it was awesome to see so many characters again in a whole new, fresh picture.
This beauty right here:
https://www.deviantart.com/methpring/ar ... -522834346

When I see stuff like the same Gin pasted on another plastic pin or whatever, it just makes me uninspired to even think about collecting Ginga stuff.
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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Astor » Tue May 14, 2019 12:30 am

  • It secretly bothers me that the Kai don’t have real Kai markings
  • that the pureplastic plush are basically impossible to get outside of Finland
  • That Fuji and Riki pooped out a silver brindle. At least his brothers are genetically accurate.

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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by fantachan » Tue May 14, 2019 12:32 am

My biggest peeve of mine is that Yoshi doesn't respect the concept of "Show, don't tell" in his manga.

Not every single action in the manga needs narration. We can clearly see what action is going on from what is drawn on the page, and by slapping narration onto it, it sort of takes away the point of the art.

Yes, we know that Weed is struggling in his battle against Hougen. We can see it.
Yes, we know that the Hybrid bear is trying to MURDER everyone. We can see it.
Yes, we know that cataract-Gin is having a hard time fighting against the bears. We can see it.

It's all illustrated on the page. Does Yoshi think his readers are stupid??

Now, there are some times when narration is needed, like explaining the backstory of a character or revealing a character's emotion, but having it describe actions as it's happening on a page is very unnecessary, and it really annoys me when translating.

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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Dragon » Tue May 14, 2019 3:21 am

I reaalllyy hate when a villain is showcased as the most OP, epic badass ever who can cut your head off with just a flick of their head, but when faced with good guy characters, they suddenly can't anymore.
DID YOU SEE HOW EASY THE RUSSIAN DOGS TORE UP HAKURO'S ARMY!? but not the Ohu army. Too thicc skin. Too buff from plot armor
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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Pumpkin Wolf » Tue May 14, 2019 3:21 am

Astor wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:30 am
  • That Fuji and Riki pooped out a silver brindle. At least his brothers are genetically accurate.
Actually if both parents were carriers of a brindle then Gin could have actually happened. The odds are very low, but that's also how the very first brindle came into existence, though... but I do get what you are saying. Also, were you going to acknowledge that Rigel is a black Akita? I don't know a whole lot about akitas but hmmm... seems fishy XD
Also on the topic of markings, Lydia is a German shepherd colored like a husky? just thought I'd throw that in... there seems to be a lot of miscolored breeds in the series (no hate against Lydia, obviously, I love her)
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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Digsu » Tue May 14, 2019 3:59 am

fantachan wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:32 am
My biggest peeve of mine is that Yoshi doesn't respect the concept of "Show, don't tell" in his manga.

Not every single action in the manga needs narration. We can clearly see what action is going on from what is drawn on the page, and by slapping narration onto it, it sort of takes away the point of the art.
My theory is that this is a leftover from Yamato and other stories where the dogs don't speak, so the narrator had to explain the tiniest thing the characters were experiencing, and Yoshi just got used to doing it. Though that still wouldn't explain the narrator explaining actions that are very obviously happening in the panel... :THOT:

Dog-human relations not being worth a damn
Sure, the Ohu dogs talk a lot about how they mustn't anger humans and that getting along with humans is vital for the continued survival of dogs. But absolutely no one seems to respect humans unless they need medical attention or other favors from them - pet dogs are willing to abandon their loving families at the drop of a hat to fight wars that have nothing to do with them, and the Ohu dogs have no qualms with recruiting them despite them having no combat experience whatsoever. Sasuke left his family after having a tearful reunion with them, Hook abandoned his owner despite owing his life to him (he says himself that he would have been put down if he hadn't been adopted), Ron left humans despite being a trained police dog, and so on and so forth. Literally the only dogs who seem to care about their owners are the Justice guys from the Weed Gaiden, the other dogs just think of them as food and medicine dispensers.

So much for "man's best friend", I guess.



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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Wolpard » Tue May 14, 2019 4:29 am

Dragon wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 11:54 pm
LOL this is great!

I don't really like that most Ginga merch that isn't Plushies or its mangas... is just the scenes put on some plastic. I wish Yoshi could have made some special poses and pics for merch specifically. I know one of my favorite official Ginga merch I've seen by far is a special box that has a lot of characters on it. It was sadly in GDWO style, but it was awesome to see so many characters again in a whole new, fresh picture.
This beauty right here:
https://www.deviantart.com/methpring/ar ... -522834346

When I see stuff like the same Gin pasted on another plastic pin or whatever, it just makes me uninspired to even think about collecting Ginga stuff.
This!
Since merch isnt a common thing and a lot of it is discontinued, a lot of stuff can go for more than I'd want to pay for the quality of the merch...

fantachan wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:32 am
My biggest peeve of mine is that Yoshi doesn't respect the concept of "Show, don't tell" in his manga.

Not every single action in the manga needs narration. We can clearly see what action is going on from what is drawn on the page, and by slapping narration onto it, it sort of takes away the point of the art.

Yes, we know that Weed is struggling in his battle against Hougen. We can see it.
Yes, we know that the Hybrid bear is trying to MURDER everyone. We can see it.
Yes, we know that cataract-Gin is having a hard time fighting against the bears. We can see it.

It's all illustrated on the page. Does Yoshi think his readers are stupid??

Now, there are some times when narration is needed, like explaining the backstory of a character or revealing a character's emotion, but having it describe actions as it's happening on a page is very unnecessary, and it really annoys me when translating.
This is another big issue I have. Yoshi unfortunately isn't that great at telling his stories to begin with, despite the concepts being really interesting. It's gotten a lot worse in his later work too, which is probably a side effect of working on Ginga for longer than he's wanted to.

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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Tora » Tue May 14, 2019 4:54 am

Pumpkin Wolf wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:21 am
Astor wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:30 am
  • That Fuji and Riki pooped out a silver brindle. At least his brothers are genetically accurate.
Actually if both parents were carriers of a brindle then Gin could have actually happened. The odds are very low, but that's also how the very first brindle came into existence, though... but I do get what you are saying. Also, were you going to acknowledge that Rigel is a black Akita? I don't know a whole lot about akitas but hmmm... seems fishy XD
Also on the topic of markings, Lydia is a German shepherd colored like a husky? just thought I'd throw that in... there seems to be a lot of miscolored breeds in the series (no hate against Lydia, obviously, I love her)
And Sakura or Koyuki could carry the black and tan for kishus, that could make Rigel black. As the Star Sibs are more Kishu then Akita. Plus, Sakura is a Kishu mix (my headcannon is with husky).

I know about Lydia has been talking about her colouring on old GB... That some Shepherds can come grey, but now I can't find the pic again. XD

Edit:
Found it.
I quote Troll Berserker from the old GB:
About the odd designs of Lydia and Russian dogs - I found out that Geman Shepherds can have no mask, and are breed like this to this days. Also maskless variation can come in any German Shepherd color, so Lydia is probably a silver and maskless German Shepherd.
Picture (yes, this is a German Shepherd)
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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Pumpkin Wolf » Tue May 14, 2019 11:53 am

Tora wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:54 am
Pumpkin Wolf wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:21 am
Astor wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 12:30 am
  • That Fuji and Riki pooped out a silver brindle. At least his brothers are genetically accurate.
Actually if both parents were carriers of a brindle then Gin could have actually happened. The odds are very low, but that's also how the very first brindle came into existence, though... but I do get what you are saying. Also, were you going to acknowledge that Rigel is a black Akita? I don't know a whole lot about akitas but hmmm... seems fishy XD
Also on the topic of markings, Lydia is a German shepherd colored like a husky? just thought I'd throw that in... there seems to be a lot of miscolored breeds in the series (no hate against Lydia, obviously, I love her)
And Sakura or Koyuki could carry the black and tan for kishus, that could make Rigel black. As the Star Sibs are more Kishu then Akita. Plus, Sakura is a Kishu mix (my headcannon is with husky).

I know about Lydia has been talking about her colouring on old GB... That some Shepherds can come grey, but now I can't find the pic again. XD

Edit:
Found it.
I quote Troll Berserker from the old GB:
About the odd designs of Lydia and Russian dogs - I found out that Geman Shepherds can have no mask, and are breed like this to this days. Also maskless variation can come in any German Shepherd color, so Lydia is probably a silver and maskless German Shepherd.
Picture (yes, this is a German Shepherd)
Oh, I know what you're talking about! German shepherds can be blue or liver colored instead of black. It's pretty rare, because there's a gene that causes it to get diluted. German shepherds are my favorite breed, I just thought it was interesting how he chose to portray her. I didn't even think that he could have meant for her to be a maskless blue and silver. Also it might be interesting to see a panda colored shepherd in the future?

Also, I saw a headcanon that Rigel was a black brindle, instead of just solid black, which is a headcanon that I think I'll start believing.
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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Tora » Tue May 14, 2019 12:55 pm

Pumpkin Wolf wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 11:53 am
Tora wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 4:54 am
Pumpkin Wolf wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:21 am


Actually if both parents were carriers of a brindle then Gin could have actually happened. The odds are very low, but that's also how the very first brindle came into existence, though... but I do get what you are saying. Also, were you going to acknowledge that Rigel is a black Akita? I don't know a whole lot about akitas but hmmm... seems fishy XD
Also on the topic of markings, Lydia is a German shepherd colored like a husky? just thought I'd throw that in... there seems to be a lot of miscolored breeds in the series (no hate against Lydia, obviously, I love her)
And Sakura or Koyuki could carry the black and tan for kishus, that could make Rigel black. As the Star Sibs are more Kishu then Akita. Plus, Sakura is a Kishu mix (my headcannon is with husky).

I know about Lydia has been talking about her colouring on old GB... That some Shepherds can come grey, but now I can't find the pic again. XD

Edit:
Found it.
I quote Troll Berserker from the old GB:
About the odd designs of Lydia and Russian dogs - I found out that Geman Shepherds can have no mask, and are breed like this to this days. Also maskless variation can come in any German Shepherd color, so Lydia is probably a silver and maskless German Shepherd.
Picture (yes, this is a German Shepherd)
Oh, I know what you're talking about! German shepherds can be blue or liver colored instead of black. It's pretty rare, because there's a gene that causes it to get diluted. German shepherds are my favorite breed, I just thought it was interesting how he chose to portray her. I didn't even think that he could have meant for her to be a maskless blue and silver. Also it might be interesting to see a panda colored shepherd in the future?

Also, I saw a headcanon that Rigel was a black brindle, instead of just solid black, which is a headcanon that I think I'll start believing.
From his 25% Akita side, Rigel sure can be black brindle headcannon. Another headcannon is from the 66% Kishu side (Koyuki and Sakura) and those % of Sakura's mix, by being a black and tan Kishu
Black tan kishu
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Females are white
Most females are seen as white, it light coloured. Few exeptions are Fuji and Reika.
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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Shining Sirius » Tue May 14, 2019 1:15 pm

Easy: The Sexism.

Let's have fun with some examples;
:cross: Her resume is impressive: the only female strong enough to be accepted into Riki's army as a soldier, one of the few dogs who survived an attack from Akakabuto and refuses to let herself be womanised by the hundreds of men around her. Oh wait, she was almost killed immediately by Chutora, serves the men by hunting for them, claims that there's "no such thing as a strong female" to Weed (regarding Koyuki) and claims that because she's a woman she can endure many things apart from crying children. Oh and she's also very publicly undermined in GDW:O and TLW (Orion calling her an 'old hag', Kurotora shaking his head when she gets emotionally invested over Sirius' exile etcetera).

:reika: Stereotypical damsel in distress who near-always relies on a man to save her. She has a few saving graces in GDW, such as pulling Hougen into the river and standing up to Hiro when he lets his motor-mouth loose in front of the kids, but then she's promptly demoted to the stereotypical motherly type in TLW.

:ryo: Depicted as a strong, yet subservient fangirl of Jerome, who, like Reika, is used as a live shield by Hougen.

:koyuki: Pretty much exists to be Weed's love interest and to bring to light his Oedipus complex, which makes for uncomfortable reading and mum to his kids more than a character. She even calls herself a weak female in the Hybrid Bear arc.

:bella: Cries continuously and even as an adult is only ever given the job of tending to the wounded Akame with her mum, which becomes null and void after he refuses to stay in their company and she's just... never seen again.

:minnie: Apparently needed either her parents or her brother, George/Joji, to look after her constantly and still died because she wandered off and put herself in danger.

And let's not forget the handful of other females who just exist to be mothers - they have no character traits other than being mums. We also have two separate instances of spousal abuse (Kyoushiro's mum and Kamakiri's mate). :blank:
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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Dragon » Tue May 14, 2019 3:19 pm

I hate that every litter of pups need either 100% sons or majority sons.
I know saying 'unrealistic' doesn't work in this universe, but wouldn't it be interesting even if .. I dunno... one of the soldiers were born in a litter of all sisters and 1 brother and that 1 brother had to deal with all that? That'd be new in the story. That'd be interesting to see what Yoshi makes of that.
I was rereading the wolf arc and Cross' litter was originally all males. So is Sakura's litter.... and Reika.... and possibly Kisaragi's kids... and then Koyuki has 1/4 of her litter being female.
There's NEVER a litter that's been mostly girls/all girls and I don't think that makes any sense at all lol
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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Wolpard » Tue May 14, 2019 3:57 pm

Shining Sirius wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:15 pm
Easy: The Sexism.
this is a BIG reason why I am so hesitant to recommend Ginga to friends. The artwork and concepts are good enough for me to deal with it but I'd feel bad recommending such a blatantly sexist series to someone. Like you said, characters straight up say females are weak, and they're shown to be right about it.

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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Dragon » Tue May 14, 2019 6:15 pm

Wolpard wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:57 pm
Shining Sirius wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:15 pm
Easy: The Sexism.
this is a BIG reason why I am so hesitant to recommend Ginga to friends. The artwork and concepts are good enough for me to deal with it but I'd feel bad recommending such a blatantly sexist series to someone. Like you said, characters straight up say females are weak, and they're shown to be right about it.
Right? ;; It makes it embarrassing to even post art about sometimes with people who don't know Ginga.
I have to kinda make it into a joke to make people accept the series even slightly. Like "it's got dogs in it, but terribly written with sexism so don't take it seriously".
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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Wolpard » Tue May 14, 2019 6:43 pm

Dragon wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:15 pm
Wolpard wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:57 pm
Shining Sirius wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 1:15 pm
Easy: The Sexism.
this is a BIG reason why I am so hesitant to recommend Ginga to friends. The artwork and concepts are good enough for me to deal with it but I'd feel bad recommending such a blatantly sexist series to someone. Like you said, characters straight up say females are weak, and they're shown to be right about it.
Right? ;; It makes it embarrassing to even post art about sometimes with people who don't know Ginga.
I have to kinda make it into a joke to make people accept the series even slightly. Like "it's got dogs in it, but terribly written with sexism so don't take it seriously".
I make a lot of testosterone dog jokes... :sigh:

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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Morti » Tue May 14, 2019 7:24 pm

The sexism is probably my biggest peeve, and honestly, some female characters were done so dirty. I'm still so mad about everything to do with Lydia.

And then making characters and just... forgetting them. Or just not following up on plot points with them.

Pups looking like Akita's when lbr they're mostly Kishu by this point
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Re: Ginga Peeves

Post by Dragon » Tue May 14, 2019 9:19 pm

Wolpard wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 6:43 pm
I make a lot of testosterone dog jokes... :sigh:
LOL That's a pretty good one. Might even be easier to explain it with too.
Morti wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 7:24 pm
The sexism is probably my biggest peeve, and honestly, some female characters were done so dirty. I'm still so mad about everything to do with Lydia.
I KNOW OTL
I still flashback to how Lydia was quickly dodging attacks from one of the hybrid bears, dodged Hakuro's son's attack, and disrupting the big Hybrid Bear's paw ... and then her death is a random , dog size bear? Seriously? that's practically disrespectful.
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