Would you support Sirius?

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Would you support Sirius?

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Jinto
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Would you support Sirius?

Post by Jinto » Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:04 pm

(I know what majority of people are going to vote but I want to see if I would get any different answers) but would anyone here legit agree or support Sirius's goal to make peace with Monsoon. Sirius's reasons on why he did what he did were not well done so it wasn't really convincing. But even if it was done better I still wouldn't have agreed with it
Edit: it's actually a lot more close than I expected
Last edited by Jinto on Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Shiruba
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Re: Would you support Sirius?

Post by Shiruba » Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:14 pm

I would, but I'd go about it a different way. He was too forward with his ideals and wanted to push them onto everyone without really taking into account their feelings. The Ou dogs are also right wanting to get revenge for their fallen friends, and in the wild it's kill or be killed, so nobody was really the bad guy here.
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Re: Would you support Sirius?

Post by Bluey_Madison » Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:08 am

I agree with Shiruba, as well as saying that sometimes people like Monsoon don't want to change, and that it's going to be impossible for him to make amends with dogs, let alone live in any kind of peace with them after what he's done. Growing big and strong just for his hatred of dogs likely means that he isn't going to be able to let that go just with a friendly talk, and killing and eating them like they're bugs is definitely not something one can just reform from. Even Kurojaki didn't get that treatment, and presumably the Koga dogs after his generation had stopped the cannibalism practice, likely endorsed by their old leader.

The idea of peace with the enemy is something talked about since Weed's time, though it was shown to have not worked with large-scale villains, those whose acts went beyond mere pettiness and assholery and into war crimes and sadism. Hogen, even if he was spared, had planned on attacking Ohu again and taking his revenge. A good example of mercy making a difference would be all the way at the beginning of GDW with Blue, and how he reacted to Weed's trying to help him. It resulted in him sacrificing his life in order to save Weed. Though he didn't get to live long after realizing that there was still hope for someone to be able to care about his life, it was proof that caring for someone can help them see things differently. However, that was with a guy who wasn't known for killing and eating dogs, among other severe crimes, he was just a gang leader.

Lastly, with Monsoon in particular, I want to point to how his 'paw just did that on its own.' Yeah, that's solid proof that even if he agreed to Ohu's terms by Sirius' law of getting along peacefully it wouldn't last just because of Monsoon's nerves taking over his mind and doing the work for him. Hell, if we need further proof, he attacked Sirius, the only dog who still was on his side, just because he got pissed.

Pretty much, Monsoon made his bed and got to lay in it, a salty, waterlogged bed. I'd agree with Sirius' ideals if they were used on smaller scale baddies, those that haven't eaten dogs like livestock, taken women and children prisoners, and tortured other dogs to death. And even then, it would be nice to take into account anyone else's opinions of this, and whether the person in question deserves to be forgiven and accepted, like how Hiro was the one to decide Kamakiri's fate.
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Re: Would you support Sirius?

Post by Bonisfab » Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:10 pm

I would support him but also guide him to be a better person. The others don't really listen to him because he always has the same arguments so I would help him to think of a better way to convince the others. For example I would tell him to show them that Monsoon isn't a threat just like when Gennai and the kama bros saw Monsoon playing with Sirius and Shion.

I think Sirius needed someone to guide him but everyone just pushed him away and said that he's crazy. The way the others treated him would already make me side with Sirius because the Ohu army was just a bunch of jerks in TLW. And it wasn't just towards Sirius, everyone was always picking on each other and starting useless fights and drama. :EMPTY: What happened to working together?
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Re: Would you support Sirius?

Post by Shining Sirius » Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:53 pm

I'm really surprised at this poll currently sitting at 50/50. I thought for sure the ratio would be closer to 30% Yes and 70% No.

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Re: Would you support Sirius?

Post by Tora » Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:58 pm

I would like to have "In a way yes, in a way no" kind XD
As I'm 50/50 of him.
With Monsoon he was way off, but agree with to get along with the bears, like Chibi. And he totally screwed with Bob and mocking him as a victim.
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Re: Would you support Sirius?

Post by Leomonade » Thu Mar 10, 2022 10:12 pm

Sirius is... Like he does make good points but he is also completely delusional.

He is right that it's stupid for every damn generation to have a war against bears when it CLEARLY does not solve anything and there are always a lot of casualties. Also even though he was rude while making the point, he was right when he said it was Ohu army's fault Monsoon became what he is. Unfairly slaughtering his family and many other bear families just because of a grudge for one single bear they happened to be related to was really shitty of them. Especially because they went and did it right behind Gin's back. They knew it was wrong and did it anyway.

I mean even Akakabuto becoming an insane monster was Gohei's fault. Hunting a bear in a snowstorm and giving it brain damage with a badly aimed shot was one of the stupidest things you could do. No wonder all his dogs died! Akakabuto needed to be taken care of because he had turned completely insane. All of that could have been avoided if the hunting of a bold bear wasn't left on a drunken grandpa hahaha

The Ohu army needs a new type of system since their current one is "We follow the Supreme leader blindly, except when we don't". Their "army" has no structure and is dysfunctional. Their vendetta against wild animals native to the forests they live in needs to go when they are literally stray dogs lol. They are acting just as stupid and crazy as Yukimura was acting about the monkeys.

HOWEVER!
Sirius' methods do not work. And are quite frankly crazy. The idea that you can beat up a murderer and expect them to not be evil in the future is the stupid method Weed made. And just like with him, it does not work.
And like it was mentioned, Sirius' horrible attitude towards victims is disgusting. It's a nice character flaw tho but it's left unexplored. I myself headcanon it as him projecting on the victims. He himself was horribly abused as a young pup and his coping method was to endure and forgive.

This is such a hard question for me. Because I feel like my opinion is in the middle. In a way, I'd support Sirius for wanting to find another option to solve the situation than war. And I'd at least want to make sure that the enemy was someone you could not negotiate with before making the final decision. But considering what Monsoon ended up being, I would DEFINITELY not go with "oh we can just play a little and just completely ignore everything" that Sirius wanted. The plan the Oju army ended up going with was pretty much equally stupid. Half of them would be dead if it wasn't for Sirius screaming and interrupting the fight and taking hits for them. Honestly... the whole of TLW was just "stupid idiots do stupid things". I feel bad for Shion hahaha, I would have just left lol.
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Re: Would you support Sirius?

Post by Tsukitora » Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:56 am

I would’ve supported only to the extent of Sirius attempting to negotiate and give Monsoon a chance or two to make up for his crimes and promise to leave Ohu alone permanently, but obviously I wouldn’t stand for the trying to repeatedly pester Monsoon after Paradise was taken back. Simply tracking and spying on him from more of a distance, in case he were to show any signs of posing further threats to Ohu or any allies after the rest of his kin were defeated, would’ve been better.

Considering Monsoon’s forces already did a lot of onscreen damage by the time they were down to only him, I think Monsoon should’ve been given one, maybe two (depending on circumstances), chances to just head back to his home and promise not to be a threat anymore, and send some scouts out for some time to make sure he actually goes home and doesn’t attempt a sneaky detour or start trying to recruit another bear army or wipe out other stray dog populations. It was pretty rash (or maybe just toxically masculine? it is Yoshi… :tfw_bella1: ) of most of the Ohu army to be so bent on taking Monsoon down months after he’d retreated when they didn’t exactly know for sure at that point whether Monsoon would even try to attack Paradise again. I understand the determination to avenge fallen comrades, but their numbers were already lower from those losses and the survivors’ wounds only recently healed, which should’ve put them at more risk of even more casualties when they did set out to chase Monsoon down if not for how ridiculous that last ‘battle’ turned out with Orion doing most of the work :tfw_orion2 Plus, imo Sirius did have a valid point about chains of revenge, not to mention Weed had a similar notion in the final GDW anime episode. However annoyingly radical their pacifism may be (Sirius’s even more so of course), there is a bit of truth to it; it really is much harder to end a war when each side keeps retaliating to each other’s every retaliation. o.e’
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Re: Would you support Sirius?

Post by Gingaddict » Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:35 pm

I would support him up to a certain point, like I would try to talk it through first but if the results end up with someone getting severely hurt or even killed, I would stop then resort to fighting. I just think both options should be explored and consider which one is the most practical, therefore you have evidence on which is the best. I think a opinion should be allowed to stand up to a certain point, as some battles ain't worth it if it just keeps coming up negative.
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